Re: talking about God
Well without knowing what 'IT' is I'll go ahead and give my answer
anyway...See I think it is just a matter of whether you believe or
not...I mean in the context of NLP, can you right now believe anything
you choose to believe? I mean create a congruent belief inside yourself
right now that Satan killed God, then created the Earth and created all
of us as personal toys to torture and that Jesus thinks Satan is his
real father and his dying on the cross was just part of Satan's plan
to lure him into death...How does that feel? Well, if it doesn't feel
completely real why not? I'm sure someone out there believes it, or
something like it, and if they can do it...
You give some evidence to support your belief, and yes your belief
changed at some point and has been maintained ever since by using the
input you receive that is relevant to support the belief, but if NLP
says anything at all, it seems to me it says that "it's just a belief."
And you can change it, and since all our perception is subjective
anyway, who the F*CK are you or I say that our perceptions are any
more "real" than anyone elses?
The beliefs you've generated about God, religion and curiosity are
"just your beliefs", and from what you wrote it seems clear to me that
most of them are based on a reaction to one church, your parents, and
one priest, at least those seem to be the crucial people involved...so
yes, you have just chosen to believe one thing, I suspect because it
was most useful at the time, and you could I know, utilizing NLP
change your beliefs right now to anything you want...so I don't really
see how it can be anything other just a question of whether you believe
or not. That's just my perception though...
Loren
critter wrote:
>
> I'VE GOT A PEN-PAL ON THE NET WHO IS A CHRISTIAN, SHE MENTIONED
> RECENTLY TO ME THAT IT WAS "JUST A QUESTION OF WHETHER YOU BELIEVE OR
> YOU DON'T". I CHOSE TO DISAGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT AND THIS GOT ME
> INTO THINKING ABOUT IT AND THEN I WONDERED WHAT THE REST OF YOU MAY
> THINK? ...
>
> HERE'S WHAT I WROTE BACK TO HER:
>
> Now you're asking!!!!
>
> Well, I remember age 10 or so spending long nights awake scared and
> shaking cos I knew I couldn't live up to the precepts the church
> presented, and therefore I would go to hell
>
> this prompted off some very early quests for philosophical truths
> where I read a lot of pro and anti religious literature
>
> and now whilst I believe Jesus was a spiritual leader I believe he
> was also a political leader and an anti-Roman revolutionary
> (ref book 'The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail')
>
> I believe miracles are possible
>
> I take what Jesus said about all of us being the children of god as
> meaning we are all spiritual beings and can make magic and miracles
> in the world
>
> what I can never forgive the church for implying is that we are all
> flawed and need forgiveness
>
> this takes away any sense of personal responsibility
>
> god is inside, not outside
>
> 'he' is not a forgiving father, he is the spirit energy of existence,
> and no I don't truly know what this means, however its an empowering
> belief to have!
>
> Heaven and hell are what you make them and both are here on earth
>
> I have no idea what happens after death
>
> I have had some out of body experiences which I take as first hand
> experience of spiritual existence, there's no proof with this of
> course, its a subjective experience, anyone objectively looking has
> no evidence that anything unusual has happened to me
>
> I left the church when I was 13. Through my reading I created a load
> of questions to ask at the interview before my confirmation
>
> the only one I remember was related to the environment I grew up in
> and people going to hell
>
> I asked the curate of a hypothetical situation
>
> "what happens to a kid who grows up on one of the housing estates
> round here, his father beats him, he is taught to steal and fight,
> becomes a thief, lier and a bully, gets drunk, gets into a fight, gets
> angry with someone and kills them intentionally, because he is
> programmed to behave this way?"
>
> he had no clue to answer this and neither I suspect do you
>
> I walked away, did not get confirmed and look back on that day as the
> first day of my adult life
>
> its not just a matter of belief, since regular religion is so full of
> nominalistaions, and deletions of reference that you and most
> Christians that are not religious philosophers cannot really even
> explain what it is that they believe or do not believe
>
> try it some time!
>
> yes its good to give children choice, but I wish my parents hadn't
> bothered to give me the choice of religion - the biggest effect I got
> was to be constantly criticised and disciplined when I showed the
> spark of life and creativity rather than just being a good little
> rote learner!!!
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