RE: _NOT_---> Re: Archive/Directory
- Subject: RE: _NOT_---> Re: Archive/Directory
- From: Mark Sakry <cmsakry@MR.Net>
- Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:45:42 -0500
----------
From: Dennis Strain[SMTP:dstrain@cloudnet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 1996 11:40 AM
To: nlptalk@ecuinfo.cowan.edu.au
Subject: _NOT_---> Re: Archive/Directory
Start Quote+>>>
At 03:12 PM 10/2/96 +0200, you wrote:
>At 09:42 01/10/1996 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ====================================================================
>>> Name: Bernard FRIT
>>> Postal Address/Locality: Combre, BP12, 63250, CHABRELOCHE, FRANCE
>>> e-mail: bfrit@nat.fr
>>> web: users.aol.com/ADDICTNLP/index.htm
>>> Phone(s) etc:047-394-2776, 047-394-2511(home), 047-394-2714(fax)
>>> Occupation/Vocation: NLP Trainer, book publisher(NLP books in french),
>>> Particular corners of nlp that you inhabit:
>>> Use of NLP, hypnosis and so in addiction recovery process: with my
>>> wife Elisabeth we had designed a specific 5 days seminar for
>>> alcoholics and it works!
>>>
>>> ====================================================================
>>>
>>> -Bernard Frit
>>
>>
>>Hey, that seminar for alcoholics sounds great! Congratulations! Just
>>out of curiosity, does the seminar offer the alcoholic participant the
>>outcome option of continued moderated drinking? Or does it require or
>>promote abstinence?
>>
>>-- Kurt Luoto
>>
>
>Hi Kurt
>
>You're asking *THE QUESTION*. My answer will depend at which logical
>level we are speaking: in fact all this can be boiled down to abstinence
>yes or not ?
>
>- here in France as alcohol is part of the culture (ie when someone is
>offering you drinking a good wine it's hard to say no without offending
>him). So every (let's say most of them) alcoholic is coming in our seminars
>with the secret (or not secret) outcome of being able to drink moderately.
>So at this time we answer NO to the abstinence question (building rapport).
>
>- as alcohol and all the addiction's substances are very very *very* strong
>and powerful anchors our outcome is to change our patient's outcome in
>-let's become abstinent for a time (!!!)-: that way the patient will convince
>his relatives he changed dramatically. So the answer is abstinence YES.
>
>- Richard Bandler gave us ways of building internal process (he said "building
>a warning machine") to control drinking : a former alcoholic could drink
>one glass of Champagne for Christmas or for a Wedding or for a Birthday or
>so -no more than a glass of alcohol each month. This kind of installation
>is possible using deep trance and is more of DHE than NLP. So the answer
>could be abstinence NOT completely.
>
>- In chapter 6 of Reframming Bandler and Grinder wrote (I guess that's
Grinder)
>they used to bring their patients to a bar 3 month after to test if they were
>still addicted or not. They wrote that full recovery is reached when someone
>can drink moderately as everybody else. In some ways we had tested this and
in
>France with the beliefs associated to alcohol, it does not work ! So the
>answer is abstinence definetely YES.
>
>- Working with our patients' decision making strategy of drinking and helping
>them making big changes we discovered some of them became able to drink in a
>normal way. Most of the time after a period of abstinence followed by a period
>when thet got back to their habit. So the answer could be abstinence : it
>depends of the person maybe YES maybe NO.
>
>My answer is congruently incongruent ;-) but as addicted people are very
>dissociated people it would be normal that any issue about addictions
>would also be dissociated....
>
>regards
>
>-Bernard Frit
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Why are you two apparently intellegent fellows doing this?
Are you too lazy to change the subject of the original message
to a new one?
Many of us automatically filter our e-mail systems due to
large amounts of e-mail ... It depends entirely on senders
of e-mail being courteous enough to follow a few simple rules.
Now go sit in the corner for 20 minutes (next time you will
be spanked).
Dennis Strain
<<<+End Quote
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I must agree with Mr. Strain. I would have missed this very
interesting discussion *entirely* had it not been for the curious
"_NOT_" in his own subject heading.
Mark Sakry