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Brent, you wrote: >>What's my point with this? The therapists whom Rene mentioned above didn't learn to use self-dissociation effectively (deliberately). They paced their patients, but never lead them to more resourceful states, and ended up getting locked into those states themselves. An important part of therapist training should be how to use self-dissociation.<< That certainly sounds like an important part of it. cheers, Rene